In speaking with those who have left, I am consistently hearing that our former pastor was confrontational to anyone who spoke up. Now, those who left that I know well enough are all very kind people who think very carefully on their faith. They are either hurt or are trying hard to avoid bitterness because of how this pastor dealt with them. I am wondering if this will come out in the survey? If you are looking at the fruit in our former church, you will see a rotten temper with our former pastor, that is for sure. So, if you “go deeper” with spiritual formation, this is what you get? If it were just us, I’d say it’s possible we made some mistake and maybe we rubbed him the wrong way or we perceive his behavior wrongly. However, it’s MANY meek people who just had to speak up who are expressing a distaste for this former pastor’s attitude.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged church, know them by their fruits, leaving a church focusing on emergent youth, missional, pastor, spiritual formation | Leave a Comment »
Friends, say this, “I am a living stone” and “I am a priest”
Turn to your neighbor and say, “you are my priest.”
Congratulations pastor, you just had a sexual predator, who is not one of God’s elect say he is a living stone and declare he is someone’s priest. There’s also a thief, a liar, and a mother who beat her child just before service. Even some out there are nice in our eyes, but are still sinners and have just said they are someone else’s priest. Now, if that sexual predator has become regenerated and has turned from his wicked ways and is saved, that’s a different story. However, making a mixed congregation repeat after you can be dangerous. There may be a delusional person out there who now believes they are something they are not. Scary.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged Christ, church, false teaching, pastor, priesthood., responsibility | Leave a Comment »
Fake emotionality, I cannot stand it. I am emotional by nature, and wear my heart on my sleeve. Still, in church and in marketed Christianity, a wavering voice and emotional story can be used. Sure, it’s great to hear a good testimony, but if it’s used to convince people of a lie or a compromise in the church, it’s wrong. I don’t know how many testimonies I’ve heard that attempt to manipulate my behavior. It’s not just a story, it’s a prompting through emotion to support a church, to join the current program or event, to become part of a group, to go to a retreat, and on and on.
Sometimes people praise God through their emotional event, through their pain. This is not what I am talking about. I’m talking about using some of these events to promote a bad program or whatnot. I am also talking about trumped up emotion to sell something in churches. I hear it through television evangelists, and from the mouths of pastors. Get ‘em crying and you got ‘em. Well, I cry easily, but I still search scriptures. You might get my emotions, but I don’t trust my emotions. I trust in the Lord, I trust in His word. Period.
I pray God keep me from letting my emotions lead me away from Him and the truth.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged church, emotional manipulation, emotions, trust, truth | Leave a Comment »
I always check my thougths with a few people I trust when it comes to discerning what someone is up to in the church. I seek out leadership or wise counsel because I don’t always trust my own motive when trying to figure out if somneone is right or wrong. This is because I may have the human agenda of assuming too quickly that a leader or person is choosing evil in their error, when in fact it might be an oversight on their part. I ask those around me if they can see the trend I’m seeing.
I have found though, that some people I trust don’t have open eyes for discernment. I have lost patience at times when I continue to see problems and someone doesn’t. I am so glad God connected my husband and me to a very wise man who keeps me in line when I question things I’ve been seeing. He asks hard questions, challenges me, and if he can see the evidence points to what I am saying, he validates my perceptions. However, if he doesn’t find evidence, he does caution me to be careful with assumptions. If I didn’t have him (and his wife) through this process, I may have made even more mistakes in this process. He bases his thoughts on what’s happening in our former church on what he sees with his eyes, what he hears people say, and if it matches with scripture. I am so emotion based. Sometimes I just know something is wrong but cannot figure out why. This can be a good thing, helps me keep my distance even if I cannot see what I’m protecting myself from.
I think it’s important to recognize your weaknesses and seek counsel when you are in the midst of confusion in church. It’s hard to find someone to trust, sometimes you have to look outside your church. Look in the scriptures, pray. That’s what I’ve had to do. I cannot always trust my assumptions, my feelings, my thoughts.
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For some reason, my former church has sent out a blanket letter of “we miss you” and a link to a survey for those who have left. At first it sounded like a sincere letter to us personally from one of the pastors, but it was evident quickly that it was just a letter they sent out to a list of emails from those who have left the church. It threw me at first, and then I began to get a bit offended. When we left, we really got very little contact from the pastors. One did meet with us and continued contact as long as we wanted. He was genuinely sad we left, but the rest dropped us fast. In fact, we recently saw one of the pastors when we popped in on friends. The pastor and his wife were friendly enough, but if we were truly missed, there was not an expression of that. It was awkward for both couples, we talked and were nice but what can you say?
The blanket letter comes after a few others have left, and I wonder if more have left than I realize. The survey seeks to know why people have left and how the church can pray for you….and a few more things. I kept feeling like it is a marketing tool when reading it. It’s like when you choose not to use a service and they send a survey to find out why. They don’t want to know how they’ve erred doctrinally, but want to know more logistics of things they can change. At least that’s my take. I could wish it were a fishing for truth….but I cannot help to feel there is a motive other than my dreams.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged church, contemplative, emergent, emerging, left a church focusing on emergent youth, marketing in church, pastor, pastors, seeker friendly, spiritual formation, survey | Leave a Comment »
Sometimes I get responses to posts suggesting I am judging. This morning, in my inbox, I received this response:
to this post: http://christianlady.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/bill-hybelsbob-buford-and-twisting-scripture/
I am not judging Bill Hybels here, I am pointing out errors he is making. The Bereans were commended for searching scriptures to see if teachers are speaking the truth, and we are specifically called to test the spirits. The response is a misuse of the word “judge.” I do not decide where Hybels spends eternity, and I am not saying he is unsaved…I do not know him personally and cannot judge him by his fruits on a daily basis. But, his public fruit stinks in certain areas. I can judge him by his fruits, meaning I look at the fruit and decide if what he is saying jibes with scripture. If it does not I can point it out. Not judging in terms of saying he is evil and going to hell, but judging in terms of saying he is in error in his teaching.
There are also times when we do judge the actions and can determine that someone is unsaved at this time. Sometimes it’s very clear. I do not again think that we are judging the person as condemned so much as looking at the fruit and knowing the tree is rotting. There are times for pointing this out, for warning Christians of the dangers. It’s not that we’re saying we’re better than this person or that, just that their actions show they are not following Christ.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged berean, bereans, Biblical, error, judge, judge not lest you be judged, pointing out error | 6 Comments »
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged boldness, Catholic Church, church history, free download, Here I Stand, Martin Luther, pope, Protestant, reformation, Reformation Day, scripture | Leave a Comment »
I listened to a sermon by my former pastor and found it to be actually not that bad. I could be happy that maybe he’s changing his ways, but I actually fear the flaw is more with me. I am thinking I must not have it all down, I’m missing the wrong teaching in what he said. Actually, it’s great if his sermon is better. No wonder most of it was probably okay, he read the bible verse by verse and then preached on it…reading a few verses and describing the meanings. I did have a few nit picky things I thought he could have worded differently, and depending on where he goes with it in the future, they could be problems.
He referenced “strangers” and “aliens” as refugees. He kept saying that we (meaning who I’m not sure) are refugees and he prefers that though I couldn’t find the word in the text in the bible versions on bible gateway. I guess I would prefer one from a good translation, but maybe he knows something about the Greek translation?
He did do some illustrations he drew out, got off on a personal story…but this is minor and only bothers me because I don’t trust his teaching not because a preacher cannot share a personal story once in a while.
Fact is, there are true things he has said in sermons in the past, there have been good things. However, when he is off, he is usually really off.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged church, emergent, gospel, pastor, spiritual formation, transformation | 4 Comments »
I personally believe, as Christians who would mourn with someone who lost a family member, we should also make sure to remember the littlest of people. Mothers and fathers of babies who die in the womb, just before birth, or soon after, are often put through the “just get over it” phase. The earlier in pregnancy the baby dies, or if there are disabilities such as Down’s syndrome or Trisomy 18, there is often a justification for shortening the mourning period.
I believe there is a time to mourn, and also that we do feel a deep sadness for the chidlren we do not get to actually meet because God set eternity in our hearts. Maybe I am making a leap here, and please let me know if this is not a right thought, but I do believe we were not actually meant to be apart in death. Not actually. So, it’s a natural state to mourn our losses.
I personally see grief as a gift. When I had a baby die in the womb at 16 weeks, something discovered at a regular OB appointment, I mourned deeply. I decided I would allow myself to mourn. I spent hours in prayer, and hours letting God hear my anguish. I spent hours reading scriptures. My other children were being taken care of by grandparents and their father. I just had to weep, think, pray, write, and remember. I wanted to go all the way with mourning. After all, God had created the child in me and I actually felt I was dishonoring God to not mourn properly. Now, this was just feelings, not gospel truth. Though now, I am so glad I did mourn fully.
What I did want more than anything though was to bury the remains of my child. I had been pushed into a D&E by my doctor, who was trying to be kind. I am outspoken, but chose not to ask or speak up. I do not know what was holding me back, but I didn’t ask for the remains, didn’t ask to be induced. I later helped get a line written in a law in my state that caused hospitals to be responsible to inform women they can have the remains when being treated for miscarriage or “fetal demise.”
I know there is a time to let the dead be dead and rejoin the living…but I believe the church should be supportive of those families who have experienced the death of a loved one no matter how small. A rose on the piano, a card of sympathy, a prayer from a pastor or maybe a women’s group leader, a book of rememberance in the church , something should be done to honor those who have had babies die in pregnancy or shortly after birth. I do not think this is a mandate, or that a church is less holy for not doing it. I just think it wouldn’t hurt to do a little bit more.
Of course, there are many women who have never spoken of their miscarriages. It’s too painful, or they have chosen to keep the secret to themselves. Others have had abortions and would never speak of it. If a church acknowleges the losses openly in general, this might help the silent mourners too.
I believe, as a prolife woman, thanking my God for the days I was pregnant with the chidlren I miscarried, and mourning the losses, has honored His creation. Again, this is just my opinion and not a revelation from God to me.
If you have had a baby die, I pray for you. I thank God for the time you had with your baby, no matter how brief, and I pray for your comfort.
Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged abortion, baby, CHRISTIAN, church, ectopic pregnancy, eternity, fetal loss, grief, miscarriage, missed miscarriage, mourning, newborn death, parenting, pregnancy loss, spontaneous abortion, still birth | 4 Comments »
