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Posts Tagged ‘saddleback’

So tired of looking around and seeking all this seeker friendly/spiritual formation stuff.  I think it’s much like the cults…mormons/JW’s and others only they have walked right into previously decent churches that once did preach the gospel correctly.  However, error was likely there before in small ways.  Then there were weaknesses highlighted.  People wanted to do better, bought into some lies, and then time passed.  Slowly, slowly, these false teachers have taken over.  Our desire for good feelings in church has pushed many to just swallow and follow.  Ugh.  I know I did it.  If I had any inkling there was something wrong I just swatted it away.  So now, we’ve got real problems all over.  The foundations have shifted and we’re not seeing Christ in the church buildings, we’re seeing falsehood.  We forgot our first love and now compromised.  I say we because, well, I was once in this type of church. 

Still, though I know how easy it is to be a party to all of this mess, I am sick and tired of it.

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Recently I came across a web page for a ministry called Vision360 co-founded by Steve Johnson, together with Al Weiss, President, Worldwide Operations, Walt Disney Parks & Resorts. (this has to do with the little church big church postings….the little church was to be a part of Vision 360 if they decided to hand themselves over to big church).   The mission of Vision 360  is to “serve and empower a collaborative church planting community in 500 global cities by 2025.” The plan is as follows, “Each city will have a City Catalyst who will work closely with the pastors to recruit church planters and business leaders, assess church planters at the national assessment center, raise the funds necessary for the church planters and then supervise the church plants. After money has been raised, each city movement becomes self-sustaining as each church plant will then give back 5% of their general fund offerings to fund future church plants.” This means there will be an outside person involved in each of the church plants, answering back to this organization. It’s almost as if they are setting up a denomination that people in each individual church may not realize they are a part of. These churches are “non-denominational” from what I can see. Each city has a “visionary” and I know one of them myself…from my former church. He’s the lead pastor.

More information on this Vision360 organization is that they are naming the training center after Bill and Vonette Bright. Erwin McMannus is on the board. A Google search cache shows Dan Southerland (I believe he’s from Saddleback originally) was one of the “visionaries.”   They are using the Lausanne Covenant, this is something I know little to nothing about.  Anyone out there know about it?
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:a8lOoYioBD0J:www.vision360.org/contentpages.aspx%3Fparentnavigationid%3D1341%26viewcontentpageguid%3D7fe6c057-79bc-4c27-903d-c00b93ef49f4+vision+360+dan+southerland&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

So what is this all about? http://www.vision360.org/

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The sermon on the mount equals recovery?  I never would have thought that it could be boiled down to something so simple.  I guess I don’t need to study that part of my bible.  Thank you John Baker for providing churches with a book, and Rick Warren for promoting a study for small groups so no one has to think about this section of scripture ever again.  According to you guys, it’s all about our healing and happiness.  Yipee!  I guess I should get into a small group and study this book (rather than the bible) and I’ll feel great.  I might even stop overeating or might deal with the demons of all the problems and hang ups in my life.  I’m sure I could share this series with Christians being persecuted around the world for their faith and they will agree, it’s all about recovery.  Thanks boys for that!

(okay, so I’m a little bit sarcastic here…I just don’t like the marketing, the promises, nor the twisting of the bible scriptures into an 8 step self help plan).

https://www.lifeshealingchoices.com/

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Before the pull on Saddleback’s website:

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
 The Bible very clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

“Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin.” (Lev. 18:22 TLB)

“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV)

While all sin is destructive, Romans 6 warns us of the great dangers in sexual sin when it says, “Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body.” (1 Cor 6:18 NLT) This includes not only homosexuality, but all sexual immorality: adultery, sex without marriage, pornography. We must not act as if homosexuality is the only serious sexual sin, and we must not act as if homosexuality is not a serious sexual sin.

I’ve heard it asked, “Isn’t being homosexual something that a person is physically born with?” First of all, there are absolutely no facts to support this claim. From time to time studies have been reported in the news that seemed to indicate this, but every one of these studies has proven to be wrong. Secondly, even if some physical difference were discovered, it would be no excuse for sin. We know that some people can develop a stronger physical addiction to alcohol than others, but that’s obviously no excuse for living an alcoholic lifestyle.

Finally, a word about being judgmental. It’s not judgmental to say that what the Bible calls a sin is a sin, that’s just telling the truth. Not being willing to talk to someone caught up in sin, or not believing that they can be forgiven, or thinking that you are not just as much in need of Jesus as they are … that’s being judgmental.

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.

In equal desire to follow Jesus, we also would not accept a couple into membership at Saddleback who were not willing to repent of the sexual sin of living together before marriage. That does not mean this couple cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.


Maybe they are under construction, but the whole list appears to be gone.

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Rick Warren’s Saddleback church will be hosting a forum between Obama and McCain mid-August.  I’m on an email list from FRC Action which reports the ” ‘main areas of focus’-AIDS, poverty, human rights and the environment.”  Huh, not gay marriage, not abortion, not faith based initiatives, not abstinence education?  I agree, we should care about those who are ill with disease, and those in poverty or who have been abused.  We should be good stewards of God’s creation, but come on, these issues sure sound loaded and don’t answer the concerns of many Christians.

The first images of McCain and Obama in opposition on stage (though this moment on stage together will be brief) will not be with a journalist and moderator the likes of Tim Russert, but will be with a mega-church pastor, specifically, Rick Warren.  I cannot help but think Rick Warren is pushing his own agenda here, something has got to be in this for him.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Is the media ready to accept Warren in this particular role? 

Personally, I believe something stinks here.

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Every time we have a campaign in our church to go through another book, each person in the small groups buys a book.  If we cannot afford a book, someone else will buy it for us.  Most of these campaigns are for the teaching impaired, and therefore, there has to be a DVD purchased for each small group.  I guess tithes pay for this?  There are often slick ad campaigns before a series in which the entire church will follow the same theme.  There might be postcards mailed out, which can be mailed for free but still cost money to purchase from the organization selling them.  There might be posters in church ahead of time, again, there is a fee for such things.  Besides our church wide campaigns and books, there are many small group study books on just about any topic.  Some again are “DVD” driven.  At different times during the year our church has speakers who promote their books or music CD’s.  These speakers, I’m learning through my searches, are tied in with contemplative prayer or other topics of concern to me.  They do not speak for free, they are paid with funds taken from our offering.  And then there are the conferences, training sessions, and seminars.  Nothing is free, and if you get a “scholarship” that money comes from the general fund.  Oh, and the missions trips!  That’s right, how could those be linked in any way to an agenda for emergent church?  Well, in my reading and searching I found various links to a local emergent church and youth program/camp.  This camp I’ll call YF has several missions destination sites they are in charge of.  So, we often pay to send kids on missions trips through YF, and also send kids to the local YF camps around our area.  This YF camp is run by a man who is on the board and I think, from what I have read, helps pastor the local emergent church.  (This church has Brian McLaren speak, and is currently having Pagit and his roadshow come to their “church basement”).  So, our church funds all these missions trips, our youth goes by droves to several locations all affiliated with YF, we also have kids going to YF camps.  Our money goes to this emergent church through YF.  Essentially, many books we buy, speakers we fund, trips that are taken, and even our children’s curriculums are supporting emerging trendy churches or seeker friendly large megachurches, or publishing houses that are “in the back pocket” of these emergent/seeker friendly church leaders (or is it the leaders are in the back pocket of the publishing companies, not sure).  All this money, and we church members are paying it.  If you don’t like the direction of YOUR pupose driven, willow creek small grouping, emergent contemplative praying, Harp and Bowling, transformational, missional, spritual formating church, you need to quit buying the books, paying for the conferences, and you need to pay your tithe to God elsewhere.  Of course, you can always do what they are waiting for the challengers to do anyway and speak with your feet!

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http://www.soulforce.org/article/1341

 

The link speaks for itself.

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