Okay, we’re a church looking at “emergent youth” today. Wonder what the focus will be tomorrow. We just went through a series in Jude, and I noticed much talk was given to “scoffers” and those who we should watch out for. I just wonder why we’re doing this. It’s true, we do need to contend for the faith, but I find it ironic that’s our series topic when I feel I’m observing something I personally need to contend for. And what’s with the idea of corporate church deciding what’s false or true, and one individual coming up with problems is “bible police?” I worry this whole series is to set up the church people to be afraid to express their concerns. I fear any thing I say will be seen as “spreading rumors” which is the biggest sin in a church that wants to control everyone.
I go through feelings though of fear or doubt. What if I’m reading paranoid people’s information and our church is really not going in a bad direction. However, the things I’ve read fit with the things I’m seeing in reality. Also, I’m noticing the pastor seems to be interpreting things ever so slightly different than I’ve heard, and in my heart I know he’s off just a little bit. It’s the “did he really mean it that way” feeling all the time. Well, I believe he did REALLY mean what he said, and if I’m right, then my alarm bells should be going off.
We sang at the end of service yesterday, cannot remember the song, but it made me cry. I was able to think that our church needs to repent and turn to Christ, and this realization in looking all around, I began to pray for our church to open it’s eyes to the truth of what is happening. I’m praying for the pastors, and the other leaders.
I may have written this here already, but maybe not. Our little weekly in house groups report to the church through the internet. We write out our prayer requests, and what happened in the meeting, what we study. We also mark who attended and who was gone. This all goes somewhere, they don’t ask for information without having someone read it. This means the idea, “what’s said in the group stays in the group” is not true and it’s very possible we can be monitored. Ugh.
I am a C...I am a CH...I am a CHRISTIAN 
You might want to check out the book, Transitioning – Leading Your Church Through Change by Dan Southerland. I haven’t read the book myself, but it seems to be the book I’ve seen referenced for churches both good and bad about transitioning to a Purpose-driven Church. It might reveal the game plan your church is using, so you don’t have to wonder.
From earlier blog entries, Do you feel that your Church Elders would ever go against the pastor’s vision or proposal and would the pastor be open to that feedback? I’m asking because I had friends at a church who even though the congregation voted on elders, the pastor privately insisted on always reviewing the list of nominees and only allowing the ones he approved of to be voted on. Basically getting a bunch of “yes” men. I think a lot of people who accept elder positions do not take the role seriously enough and assume that the pastor has more biblical insight and knowledge so they must be right. You brought up some good points about reasons your husband may not want to accept an elder nomination. I think the bigger question would be what if he becomes an elder and you end up finding out all or most of your concerns are valid and he is the only one willing to stand up against them? Is he (and your family) ready for that fight or would you rather find another church and avoid the confrontation?
I obviously don’t really know your Church situation, so these are only suggestions or things to think about, though if your church is using the book I mentioned above it seems from what I have read in other articles about that book that it’s suggestion for people unwilling to change is harsh and in my opinion not very Christian.
While I am not really against Saddleback from what I know of them, I am concerned that some pastors eager to be successful try to transition churches for the wrong reasons that end up driving away the original members.
As one last side note: I don’t think most emergent churches, if you could actually get them in agreement, would not accept Saddleback or Willow Creek as being part of the emergent movement. They tend to think of the emergent church as a response to the seeker-sensitive movement that Saddleback and Willow Creek would be associated with. That’s not to say that some emergent trends may be making some inroads there as both churches tend to be about effectiveness in reaching lost people and developing mature Christians (determining what works or doesn’t work.)
What’s weird, I’m not sure which pastor this is coming from. We have a “team” really of pastors. They all read some of the same authors (like Dallas Willard, Ortberg, etc.) and those authors all are Warren/Hybels supported books. There are a bunch of pastors at my church, one lead pastor. We’ve had one lead for a while who is now in a new role by choice. He may have been the one to start all this, but the new pastor is with it totally. In fact, I’ve heard people blame the new pastor for all the weird changes saying he finally gets his way, but that’s not at all what I see. With so many pastors on staff, it’s hard to say how elders would feel coming forward to go against it. It’s like peer pressure, they might see what an elder is saying, but not so much agree with everything. I know one elder who left after trying to present what his issues were, he’s a very serious Christian man, his family serves. They are so humble, and they left very quietly. We miss their presence, and noticed when they left. My husband has spoken to him, and he doesn’t want to tarnish anyone’s reputation so anything he’s shared has been carefully thought out. He obviously thinks the church is headed in a “different direction” and they want something more biblically based for their family. That says A LOT to me.
I would say that we are definitely into Saddleback and Willow Creek, but we’ve got a nearby “emergent” church that we model from with people not realizing it. Our church has a day when we do projects in the community, I thought our church was the first to do this special day as new churches keep adding each year. I think they had about ten local churches get together and do these service projects on one day. I began researching and discovered this was all started by an emergent church (who is now not calling itself emergent so much anymore but McLaren and others are speakers there). This emergent pastor brags that the service time was started by them several years back and now it’s branching out to other local churches. Also, our church goes on mission trips to sites run by this emergent church. Our youth attend one of several camps run by people from this local emergent church. One of our pastor’s kids attends this local emergent church. I’m beginning to think we’re a sister church of it or something…
I happened on to this discussion because I was researching a paving method that was popular at the turn of the last century oddly enough, but was interested because it dovetailed with another interest of mine, church function.
The method was sound enough as long as the conditions were well controled but if not it turned into a gooey mess, and had to be removed. I believe that the main problem with Americanized Christianity is the way we are conditioned to look to a professional for everything, this was not the way of Christ, he did not call trained teachers but fisherman, and why, because fisherman know they don’t have the ability to be the calling and will let the calling be worked out through them. but we don’t need a calling anymore, we just need the right paperwork and then we have a “ministry” and then if we can sell that to a Church we are in fat city.
I am not near as caustic as I sound, I am just tired of the games in the name of Christ and the egos.
Steve,
I’d love to hear your experience.
Just a few months ago I was sure our church had the “answers” and then my eyes were opened suddenly. It’s very confusing, so many loving people who are following. I grieve the pastors actually. I have seen such compassion, but to know they are following Rick Warren and the like, and they are doing “be still” prayers irks me. I am wondering what they think of all the ones who have left our church. I think they are deluded to believe these people were “called” to leave.
I have always been dubious about the whole mega church thing but once again we are conditioned to look to a professional be they Doctor, Lawyer or Pastor. Bigger is better, really in the new testament we see that 120 to 200 folks make for a good size, especially if the gifts are present and everyone is a minister to one other.
But as I found at Sunday school this week there are plenty who are perfectly alright with being saved and just doing their own thing. For this the Son of God suffered, died, rose from the dead and ushered in the Kingdom of Heaven? what if everyone took that view would you be a believer today? The person who discipled you was he or she a paid professional, mine is a finish carpenter who found an hour here and the to answer the questions that the Holy Spirit prodded me for an answer, and he directed me along the way and in the process I taught him as well, we were seekers after the truth together.
Questions are OK, they are proof that he who has started this good work in you is working to complete it, God is not put off by them, the show you are paying attention. No one has arrived in this life, but many never start to search, don’t ask their advice they wont understand, because they don’t want to know.
Those that discipled me were definitely not paid experts. They were life long Christians who served God by helping me.
Secretly, I loved our church for the ability for finding a place to serve and not being nagged to serve by individuals. I also loved being able to hide out if I needed to and not get to close. I could also be close to my small group, and serve “real people” in the church that I knew. Some of my feelings were selfish, and some were good.
I really do think there are great things in our church, but the doctrines and associations make me sad.